VGAP4 Combat Tips
By
Paul Honigmann
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Contents (New bits are normally in red, but the page has been completely rewritten - assume it's all red.)

Related useful stuff elsewhere:
Basic advice. Some of these things may seem obvious, but arise from genuine questions on the newsgroup.
The best way to learn about the mechanics of combat is to do some simulations. For this, I recommend the Diplomat utility. (Yeah, I wrote it, but it's the only dedicated simulator around so far.) It doesn't cost anything, though I encourage heavy users to make a donation to charity. You can also use ScriptZ0r for simulations, but it's more of a universe-creation tool, so isn't optimised for combat sims.
With simulations, you can fairly quickly get a grasp of the usefulness of different weapon types, attack options, and hulls. Diplomat is top heavy with mouse-over pop-up explanations and context-sensitive tips to help users figure out what the buttons do.
The first thing you'll notice is that effective weapons and hulls cost more money! If you enjoy the challenge of fine-tuning the ships you can afford to be most effective, you are probably going to enjoy the game of VGAP4.
Single ship versus ship combat
One-on-one ship fights are the most common form of combat.
Some
general points to note:
Weapon charging and firing order
If a ship's chance to hit is >100% (because its hull has an attack bonus, or because of Exotic Tech), the excess above 100% is knocked off the defender's chances of intercepting incoming fire.
The purpose of this is to make it feasible to design races like Stormers, whose hulls have high attack bonuses to compensate for insignificant shields, armour, eveasive bonus or sufficient PD weapons to survive incoming fire in a fight against ships of similar tech levels from other races. This leads to a different style of play for these races - they build lots of cheap ships and expect to lose most of them, but they attack like a pack of rabid dogs. Example:
The overall effect of this is that some weapons, like Photon Torpedoes, are (only) useful on ships with very high attack bonuses (like Deth Speculas), which can use standoff range = 900 and blast their enemies from relative safety. Some other weapons can be raised from complete duds to useful-in-special-circumstances types, on hulls with good attack bonuses.
Q. [Jon Nunn]: Can Deth Speculas be used
in
conjuction with Vickies where the Point Defense Systems waste all their
time firing and missing at Deth Specula weapons or are they smart
enough
to just fire at the Vickie's weapons? ![]()
A. [Tim Wisseman]: Yes, the point defense systems will waste
some
shots on the incoming Speculas' fire, even though they will miss every
time.
Q. Does the +100% attack
bonus
thing help Small Weapons?
A. Any attack bonus causes
them
to hit better.
. . . does it help them overcome
a
target's Evasive Bonuses?
Yes. - Tim
I think the defending ship's attack bonus is added to the PD weapon's odds too - but only against fighters. (I ought to check that out one day.)
Exotic tech can increase the attack bonus of all your ships (but not fighters), making low accuracy weapons more useful.
| David Ouimet posted the following, more
detailed analysis
in 2003. I don't know where he got this information, but he's usually
right:
Couple things. Everyone seems to be assuming
that Evasion
and Attack are directly applied to combat. They are not, it's actually
a formula based around a value of 60. 60 attack and 60 defence
will
yield better returns than a 120 defence, as the higher your value the
lower
the effective return. Also note that Range plays a key factor in your
to
hit values, at long range you will have less than half the chance
to
hit. Tie into this there are a couple min's and max's, to the
formula. There is a minum chance to hit and a max, 1% and 95%. |
The first thing to do is print out Sandy Schoen's tables to compare weapon types with each other. In my opinion, they are essential reading for any serious player. It will quickly strike you that there are some deliberate duds amongst the stars.
In addition, the special combat powers of various hulls, weapons, and races are summarised on Tim's site at http://www.vgaplanets.com/v4verse/weapons.htm . This is useful but not vital reading; Diplomat advises you about weapons' special powers when you select a weapon.
My favourite Large Weapons in mid game tend to be "good all rounders" like a Blaster Cannon, perhaps combined with some Disruptor Cannon. As my techs increase I upgrade to Pulsed Phasor Cannon. In late game I can afford a few Large Turbo Laser Arrays. I always mount a Sandcaster on some ships in a fleet in case I run into fighters. On ships with high attack bonuses, I tend to mount Photon Torpedoes and use a long standoff range so enemy ships can't fire back (I'm out of range). (Photon Torpedoes are very long range, but they are too inaccurate to use on most ships. An attack bonus of 50% or so makes them worth using.) My favourite Small Weapons are Pulsed Lasers.
Important factors to consider:
Range. You might be
able
to tell your ship to stand off at extreme range At the maximum range
the
weapon is 40% less accurate than at what it would be at point blank,
but
you might manage to keep out of range of the enemy's shorter range
weapons
if your ship is more maneuverable ( ie, hull speed is high).
Blast power. Since Host 181 (Dec 2004), the
"knockback effect" of Large Weapons is related to their Blast
rating. Large weapons (but not small ones) push their target away
a bit when they it; ships have inertia, they push small ships further.
This means you can push small, light ships out of range. This can be
good or bad. Weapins with high Blast ratings are, from best to worst:
Plasma Bolt Cannon (range 250); Blaster Cannon (range 335); Photon
Torpedo, (range 954); PPC (range 490); LTLA (range 510); all others are
much lower.
Mixing weapons: [Tip from David Ouimet, this is generally true:] If the enemy ships have lots of Point Defense, a mix of weapons is usually very bad design because they will all tend to charge at different rates and fire at different times. This means that enemy Point Defenses have a chance to recharge between your shots, and thus can fire at every incoming shot. What you want is a volley of say 15 shots all arriving at the same time, so if the target only has 8PD weapons, then (let's say 5 of the 15 miss so the PD ignores them), the 8PD weapons can only shoot down 8 of the 10 incoming hits. Exception: if your ships have large attack bonuses, then every shot will get through and specialist weapons become interesting.
An exception to the general rule of Not Mixing Weapons is, that I often mount a single sandcaster on most of my ships, as a good general purpose anti fighter weapon, and because a sandcaster will rapidly remove enemy holo decoys from a battle; and I often have a single Blaster Cannon on a ship, as a good base-killing weapon.
Unlike Large and Point Defense weapons, where there is a lot of differentiation between weapons, everyone just uses the tech 2 Pulsed Laser for their Small Weapons, because its fantastic rate of fire more than compensates for its minor shortcomings. (Especially when it is boosted by Exotic Techs.) Many experienced players don't bother increasing Small Weapon tech above 2, even when all other techs are maxed out.
Remember
that Small Weapons can still blow up a huge ship if they hit its Soft
Spot.
Of course, not all ships have a Soft Spot, and you can't hit it if the
shields and armour are still there. But a cheap Loki with 25 pulsed
lasers
and no large weapons can be surprisingly effective. Don't ignore small
weapons in large numbers. Some races like Centaurs have got almost no
large weapons, but they win a lot of games.
Other small weapons...
If you can get some Amphibian natives in your bases, they will build free large weapons for you. Since the best ones are normally very expensive, this opens the possibility of being able to use interesting high tech weapons in the early part of the game, and giving neighbours a nasty surprise with a "low" tech ship hull...
About the only time you should
use
a mix of weapons is, when your hull's Attack Modifier is large
(>150%,
say). This helps its shots evade Point Defenses.
Michael Richardson analysed
Tim's code for Large Weapons in August 2005 and posted his findings on
the Wiki.
Favourite Large Weapons used by experienced players
Basically any big ship with >10 large weapons should mount 1 sandcaster, 1 blaster cannon, and all others should be the same type:

Why LTLA's and TLA's are worth paying for
Paraphrased from a discussion between Chmmrmm, David Ouimet, Becksen, Mark Heinrich, Roger Norris, Chris Olin
Question. These weapons are very expensive, not just in cash terms but minerals too. Are they worth it? Or to put it another way, is it better having more ships with PPC's or fewer ships with TLA's or LTLA's?
Answer (1) - Your ships do not fight simultanously! Even if you start at the same position they will spread over the whole VCR combat zone very soon. Better 1 ship which can destroy every other ship around solo than 4 ships which will die alone one after one... A ship with LTLA, heavy shielded, maybe some Exotic Tech, costs as much as a whole fleet of average ships. But it also has the firepower of the whole fleet in one place all the time and will win the fight more often than it will lose.
Side comment. One fleet of small ships against 1 or just a few large ships will stay focused much better. Even a super large ship needs some Wings or small ships around just to break up the enemy fleet into a chaotic mob, or it can be overwhelmed by a Swarm with the correct battle orders.
Answer (2) - I have noticed that in all but the largest fleet battles the fights are kind of like in the Karate movies where ships square off one or two at a time. For ships that do not have enough LW slots to overwhelm ememy PD, the LTLA is brilliant. One has to consider the price of the platform relative to the cost of the weapon. Certainly a Bird Man Darkwing G would deserve the extra investment for LTLA's.
Answer (3) - There's another important factor to consider. Since the TLA does much less damage but fires faster, it receives a much bigger boost from the large weapon exotic techs than the PPC does.
Answer (4) - Another argument *for* big, powerful, but expensive ships is what happens in a stalemate: A portion of the enemy's fleet is destroyed, while your single ship can be repaired to 100% effectiveness...
Answer (5) A smaller, but still substantial, consideration is overkill. What happens when your ship engages a fleet of several dozen small scouts? You may end up "wasting" some of your weapon output by firing your full bank of 20 PPCs at a scout when it only would have taken 4 or 5 to kill it. Then you have to wait another 8 tics before you can fire again. If you were using TLAs, less output would be wasted and you would be able to fire again sooner. Thus TLAs can be better against large fleets of small ships.
Answer (6) Concerning the LTLA, key factor is the cost of the weapon platform. Consider the Empire's Super Gorbie. It costs a whopping 35000 just for the hull! Thus putting 20 PPCs on a Gorbie is really like paying 2300 megacredits per PPC. In this case, the change to LTLA is a GREAT idea, because the LTLA is easily eight times as powerful as the PPC even without exotics, but it's only going to cost you three or four times as much as the PPCs once you factor in the cost of the hull.
Basically, the more expensive the hull of a ship is, the more efficient the LTLA becomes.
Side comment. A ship's reaction to receiving a LTLA volley is usually to back-up out of range, which can give the LTLA ship a breathing space if it is being mobbed.
Further comment: Stormers would probably build 3 Vickies with Photon Torps instead of one "good" Vickie with gatling phasors, because Vickies die so easily they are not worth spending much on.
See also: this page about the special powers of different Point Defense weapons.
Apart from Holo Decoys, point
defenses
only protect the ship they're mounted on; ships cannot use them
to protect other fleet members. However,
they
will fire on any fighter that is in range, so they can protect another
ship from enemy fighters.
The point defence systems only
fire
on incoming shots that are going to hit the ship, all shots that are
going
to miss will be ignored.
I asked Tim for some definitive clarification on the effect of attack bonuses on Point Defense in July 2003. Specifically, does a ship's attack bonus help it shoot down incoming fire? He replied:
Holo Decoys (info mainly collated by Thriyon)
Holo Decoys confuse small weapons and large weapons. They are 2.5 times more effective against large weapons than the small ones. In particular they are especially effective versus Photon Torpedoes. Photon Torps' accuracy can be decreased by up to 60% if there are enough holo decoys around, and other weapons by up to 25%. Holo Decoys last a long time after they are dispersed, decaying at a very slow rate.
Tim mentioned on the
Newsgroup,
August 2002:
Holo Decoys affect Ion Cannons and AA guns on
bases,
fighter beams and missiles, Large and Small weapons.
Holos are destroyed rapidly by sandcasters.
So fighter races often find their enemies are using holo decoys to counter the fighters... so fighter races mount counter-counter weaponry, ie sandcasters to protect their fighters... and sandcasters can be partly nullified by Concussion Rockets (can disperse incoming sand caster grains 60% of the time), though that's probably only useful, like most Point Defenses, against sandcaster shots aimed at the ship with the Concussion Rockets. Confused yet?!
Comment. Personally I am dubious Holo Decoys do anything. Any contribution to a battle seems minimal, and can probably be explained by there being an extra ship around pumping the things out. Tim claims they sometimes seem ineffective because a Sandcaster will destroy lots of Holo Decoys with every shot, so their half life is low in a combat where enemies use Sandcasters. Since most fleets have SC's to guard against fighters, maybe this is why I have yet to see a significant effect from HD's...
Point Defenses: see Diplomat's comments. Basically:
It turns out that, all Superweapons destroy ground base shields, so they are ideal for destroying enemy homeworlds; and it is worth mentioning here that all super weapons take out the shields of enemy ships - even if the enemy has the top shield level (3000 points). - Still true? Simulate.
Miscellaneous Superweapon tips:
A Super Laser will only blow up a planet if (1) switched on and (2) the ship is ordered to KILL the planet. (Set planet to be the ship's kill target.)
Otherwise the Superlaser just attacks nearby ships.
A Superlaser can not fire on a planet in combat until tick 4000, to give defenders a chance to destroy the attacker before he wipes out their homeworld. And if they capture him, its ATTACK switch is turned off and its kill target is cleared.
A Superlaser can not fire on a planet after all movement unless the ATTACK switch is on
Also:
According to the docs ONLY the Super Laser can destroy a planet. (the World Crusher Missile does damage to bases only regardless of its name).
There is more Superweapon information at the end of the Stormer page.
Set Superweapon ships to
arrive
in Wave 2 (tick 300). Their superweapons will be charged up and fire a
devastating shot almost immediately (tick 310). ![]()
All SuperWeapons will destroy the
entire
shield of an enemy ship, and do some armour damage on top of that (and
Blast [Hull] damage if they get through the armour). This makes them
very
useful against other races' top ships e.g. Slayers with 4500 points of
shields. World Crushers do 1000 points damage to the armour and hull.
Not
so useful versus Lizard hulls (5500 points of armour and hulls with 50%
damage modifiers) but still helpful.
I usually set a specific KILL
target (NAV screen) when using a superweapon to make best use of
it, and set the ship to Target Dangerous.
Superweapons do not require any
special
setting for ship to ship firing in battles, except you must switch
the
thing ON in the ATTACK screen. Many people don't notice this
new
button on the screen, which only appears for superweapon ships.
Superweapons generate a lot of
sensor
noise when fired. Everyone knows you now have SW tech, and where your
big
ship firing it was, because they get Host messages about "Superweapon
Fire Detected!"
Arguments against using superweapons: they...
In practice, superweapons aren't always brilliant. It depends on your own hulls and the enemy's. If you're playing the Evil Empire, it is well worth spending a "mere" 5,000mc and 2450kT of Duranium on a superlaser to help protect your investment in a Gorbie. But I have noticed that adding an Antimatter Maul to a Slayer makes little difference to battles. If you're playing Stormers, building cheap trashy Vickies which are lucky to survive 2 serious battles, it's probably better to build twice as many Vickies (but with the occasional superweapon thrown in to keep them guessing!). If unsure, try simulations with and without SW's to see if they're cost-effective.
The actual stats shown for SuperWeapons are incorrect. All the super weapons have long ranges in VCR combat, ie 1000. Tim has corrected the Client, Nov 2003, dunno if he's corrected the Help files though
Tim wrote the following on the NG, Nov 2003:
All super weapons should have the range to hit anything it fires
at
98% of the time. The range math for super weapons has been removed
Damage = vH = 0.1 * ((Blast * (PartsMod / 100)) * (Rnd * 0.75 + 0.25))
* (100 / (hullmass + 50)) + 0.
A hull mass 2000 ship with a parts mod of 10
vH = 0.1 * (( 10000 * (1) * (.25) * 1/2
vH = 125% MINIMUM damage
Other uses of superweapons (besides simply shooting at ships)
Superlaser: If you fire it at a planet instead of a base, you can blow up the planet. It becomes an asteroid field, which is useless to some races. Superlasers destroy planets after all movement and combat are finished (ie, tick 4000 of the VCR). This gives defenders a chance to knock out incoming Crystal Lights etc, otherwise someone could HYP onto an enemy homeworld, set to appear on 2nd wave, fire an unstoppable superlaser pulse and effectively knock a player out.
Q. In a test game I tried to destroy a planet with a Super Laser. It only works when "Attack Enemy Ships" is on. This might be a problem if you want to attack a planet (with a cloaked ship) without a ship vs. ship fight first. Is this done intentionally or is it a bug ?
A. It is quite
intentional.
Tim wanted to be sure there was a possibility of stopping Darkwings
with
Super Lasers from blowing up planets. Without a measure like this
one, the DW was judged to be too unbalancing. So you must strive
to win, or at least survive, any battle before you are permitted
to blow up the planet you're targetting. - Mark MacWilliam
(There is a trick..... just set the "enemy" as your ally, and
your ships won't attack the "enemy". No combat will
happen, but your super laser will fire on the planet - Andreas
Benne)
Nemesis Torpedo: Useful for clearing away fighters in a battle. Unfortunately, also your own (unless they're set to "do not launch"). The effect of Nemesis Torpedoes on fighters can be reduced by the Nemesis Shields exotic tech, which means only half your fighters get blown away.
Nemesis Torp Top Tip: Aczanny Fighters are naturally protected against Nemesis Torpedoes at a rate of around 50% to 70%. Aczanny ships take no more than 5% damage from being in the area of a nemesis torpedo blast. Aczanny hulls take no more than 5% hull damage from any super weapon hit.
What exactly are the effects of a Nemesis on nearby ships which are NOT the target? (Docs state that it will destroy "small" ships nearby. And all Wings. How big / armoured / shielded etc does a ship need to be to survive?)
Answer (Tim):
Antimatter Maul: can be used to destroy Jumpgates, in fact it's the only way to destroy them. Just like when destroying a ship, the ship firing the AM will recover the 1000kT moly used to build the JG, it ends up in the ship's hold.
Protomatter Cannon: can be used to reassemble asteroid belts into planets. The planets will have a very high hyperdimensional stress, ie they will be mineral-rich and prone to blowing up!
World Crusher: can shoot at bases up to 100LY away. Extremely useful for whittling down enemy populations on major bases. This can be countered by building a base shield. But if the player shooting WC's has Transphased WC exotic tech, even base shields won't help. Note that any Superweapon will destroy a base shield at point blank range, ie in melee.
To use World Crushers at long range (up to 100LY away) versus bases:
Set waypoint 1 to the target planet and turn on the weapon. You must also set the kill target for the ship to the planet or base you are shooting at. There is a 1 in 3 chance that it will hit any bases on the target planet, even bases you cannot see, but not any ships. If the base has a Shield, you will need Transphased World Crusher Exotic Tech to punch through it. You must also switch the Superweapon ON in the ship's ATTACK screen. The ship doesn't need to be any particular speed to fire in Long Range Mode (Tim's Host release notes imply it has to be stationary, but my experiments show this is not so).
Dan
Hammond explained:
World crushers currently do not work "right."
They can be used either in Long Range mode or Point Blank, but not both
in the same turn.
The only way to get them to fire in long range mode is to set a kill
target.
When a kill target is set they will not fire till after all movement is
over. What a world crusher can not do in long range mode (kill target
set)
is to fire in a normal combat vcr.
This means that at a range of 5 or less to the
target
base when set to long range mode (kill target set) the World crusher
(without
transphased world crusher exotic tech) can not destroy a base shield as
can any other super weapon in the same circumstances.
If the kill target is not used and the range is 5 or less to the enemy
base then a normal combat vcr does happen if attack ground switch is on
and should the enemy base have a shield the first world crusher shot
will
kill the base shield. And then the second world crusher shot will kill
the base after the shield is gone. The World crusher can fire up to 3
missiles
per vcr combat. In this method a world crusher can kill a base with a
shield
without needing the transphased world crusher exotic tech.
World Crushers won't fire (just in Long Range Mode) if the ship has (System?) or Weapon damage.
One thing to watch for in Long Range mode is that although you'll destroy the population and structures, the rest of the base's contents (contraband, minerals, some Natives) will survive and can be regathered. If the enemy cunningly put his population into orbit in pods when he saw you coming, he can land them back on the planet, perhaps not losing much overall.
General info (Basics) | How Wings Work / Major Tips | Notes on different races' fighters | Defending against Fighter Wings | Miscellaneous (minor tips, obscure stuff)
| Warning: It is generally agreed, that Wings are the least understood part of combat. Advice here should be treated with caution. Each race's fighters are radically different. |
Stuff moved from the main how to play page:
You can build fighters with the Fighter Plant, a Tech 4 structure; but fighters on their own can merely fly in the atmosphere of a planet, and will not engage attacking starships. You need an Air Attack Base to form them into Wings, and this is planetary tech 10. However, Tim has acceded to requests and gives players one free AAB to start with. Incidently, there are two times that you don't need an Air Attack Base. Firstly, loose fighters on ground bases will form temporary "home guard" fighter wings automatically and defend the planet from attacking ships. Fighters return to base after combat and cannot be docked to ships and carried elsewhere like normal Wings until you buy an Air Attack Base. Secondly, carriers have a "replenish fighters" switch.
Wings are groups of fighters which are free to fly in space, and are treated as a single object for combat purposes. They have a range of 10 to 400 LY, depending on race and type, but are almost invariably carried in ships' Wing bays, giving them greater range.
Wings were very ineffective in early Betas, but have become much more useful (powerful). They are faster, fire more often, do a bit more damage when they hit ships. The Sandcaster was too powerful and was downgraded so it now no longer zaps every fighter in a Wing every time it hits - so now, even races whose fighters have no armour can use fighters. Fighters have a small chance of shooting an enemy ship's soft spot once its shields and armour are gone. Fighters firing on an Evil Empire ship have bonuses. Wings of 100+ fighters are a common tool amongst players. (Some races' fighters are poor, but only cost 10mc each, so you hear about wings of 10000 fighters.) To counter this, players equip ships with anti-fighter Turbo Lasers and more Sandcasters. Tip: I find that a couple of small wings - perhaps just 10 fighters - on "anti fighter" duty, distracts enemy wings enough that your ships have a much better chance of surviving a battle.
Fighters can fire through base shields. All fighters have a chance of taking out the base shield generator. Per shot there is a 1 in 100 chance for missiles and a 1 in 1000 chance for a beam weapon to take it out. The Enforcers have better odds of taking out the base shield. They have a have a 3 in 100 chance for missiles and a 5 in 1000 chance for beams.
I moved most of my information
on
Wings to the Combat Tips Page
because
this page was getting bloated.
Tim did big changes to Wings
round Host 192.
You can merge Wings together
by Docking one to another! Whether the one you're docking to is in free
space, or in a carrier. (In the latter case, there is a limit to the
Wing size, ie the carrier's free space.)
With Host 193, there is a bug
where you can dock wings to each other when both are in a carrier.
However, they end up occupying just 1 pod bay, ie you can exceed its
nominal size!
How Wings Work /
Major
Tips (how & why they act like they do)
Fighters will fly to
very
far range range and come to a almost stop and recharge their batteries.
When they are near a full charge they will go to maximum speed and
close
on the enemy ship, fire and run away again.
| Why
not to mix fighter types in wings, and when to do so Advice posted to the newsgroup by Scytale, January 2006 Mixing fighter types in a wing is a bad thing in almost every case. Avoid doing so. Reasons: 1) Mixing gives practically no combat benefit. Fighters do NOT share Batteries or Ord between fighter types. A wing of 100 type1s and a wing of 100 type2s will fight as well as a single wing of 100 type1s and 100 type2s. The only real benefit is a potentially increased fuel load, if you have fighters that have a larger fuel tank than travel range (that almost-completely-hidden stat) or fighters that have a massive fuel tank and generate a lot of free fuel per turn. 2) Faster fighters are slowed down by the slower ones in combat. (Note this can be a benefit.) Travel range is also decreased to the slowest in the wing. 3) Mixed wings give FREE shots to enemy PD and fighters. Yes, free. According to the PD code Tim posted a while back, a PD shot first tries to hit a type1. If it misses, it then tries to hit a type2, at NO energy or ord cost. Again, if it misses, it tries to hit a type3. Fighters are worse, according to the fighter code analysis on the Wiki. Each fighter shot can hit one of each type of fighter in the wing it fires at, for the cost of a single shot. Therefore, mixed wings can take up to 3X more incoming fire than non-mixed wings. Exception: small wings benefit from mixed types There is one particularly interesting exception to the do-not-mix rule. Because of the Generator curve and the dominance of the +0.99 factor at small numbers, fighters are more efficient energy-producers when there are less of them. This counts seperately for each fighter type in a wing. The most cost-efficient wing at producing energy is a wing of a single cheap fighter. But we are limited to building at least 10 fighters in a wing. So the most efficient wings we can make in terms of possible damage per tick combine 1 or 2 of each of the more costly types with 6 to 8 cheap ones for filler. The exact combination needed to maximize damage potential depends on the race used, whether the target is a ship or a wing, the target's evasive factors, the target's fighter mix (wings), the target's armor (wings), and the presence of HG, experience values, and race specials. Size 10 wings are the most efficient wings you can make. (Well, not in terms of resource points...) And mixing them greatly increases their effectiveness. I'm currently running calculations to maximize wing mixes in size 10 wings against various targets. But aside from tiny wings, the efficiency calculations always tend toward pure wings. Adding in 1 to 3 of the other two types increases the wing's damage potential ever so slightly, but given the free shot thing it's not worth adding them. Exception: mixed Wings are sometimes better against ships Note point (3) above: ship PD weapons get a shot at each type of fighter but they only kill one fighter, they stop once they've hit one. This means it is worth using lots of Type I fighters to shield the Type II and III ones - if Type I's are cheaper. As they are, for EE. But against Wings, you're usually better off with pure Wings. |
One major factor controlling fighters' effectiveness is their beam / missile range. If they have to get right up close to an enemy ship to fire (like EE fighters), the enemy PD has several chances to shoot them like sitting ducks while they approach. This has a disproportionate effect because:
Jelmer
Renema advises: Simulations show that you should always, always include
at least one fighter with long range missiles in any wing. This will
give
the powerbank of the wing something to do while the beams of your cheap
type 1s and 2s are out of range. This is true for almost all races. But
I personally have found that mixing EE type 3 fighters into wings of
type
1's is bad, so it's not always true. Treat this as a starting point for
tactical ideas.
Q. How come the
fighters
(of the Federation at least) have a longer firing range than point
defence?
Does this mean that the fed fighters can just stay out of range a
pummel
a ship to death without even getting touched?
A.Yes, but fighters always make an attack run to point blank
when possible and then head out to long range to recharge for another
attack
run. A small fast ship or a group of enemy fighters could chase them
all
over the place.
Q. The Fed Kittyhawk has an ord cap of 200; not even enough
to fill the ord load on 2 IO fighters (120 each). How is the carrier
suppose
to outfit 500 fighters for combat (500 * 120 = 6000 ord)? Is this where
resupply pods come into play?
A.One ship Ord = 1000 fighter ord. So the kittyhank has a
load
of 200,000 fighter ord units.
What kind of damage do the
Fighter
beams and missiles actually do? Are beams, say, good vs heavy shields
and
missiles vs armour? What are the armour drain / arc etc stats on these
widgets? Beam varies from 20 to 90. Missiles, from 0 to 100. Tim says -
"The odds that a beam will hit: range_odds = ((rMaxRange - rRange)
/ rMaxRange) * 0.4 + 0.6 ((100 - Ship_EvasiveMod + Fighter_AttackMod) /
100) * range_odds * fighterweapon_odds
"If a fighter beam hits it will take the beam power amount of shield
power out. If it hits armor it will take 1/2 the beam power of armor.
"A missile rating of 20 means that 20 shield points or 10 armor points will be destroyed."
Q. In the fighter
specs there
is a beam power, and missile power; how does that translate into the
various
types of damage done by weapons in the combat logic; ie; sheild drain,
sheild arc, armor drain, armor arc, kill, blast, parts...
A.Same types of weapons at a lower power. A fighter beam
power
of 30 equals about that of a small ship's laser.
"If a fighter has a beam power
of 30, every hit will take out 30 shield points or 15 armor points."
- Tim. From my experience, I don't believe this. Maybe it does that
much damage to other fighters. - PH
"Missiles use the same set of math."
Michael Henderson: "Tim once told me once along time ago the fighter weapon damage numbers are actially something like 1/30th normal weapon damage stats." That would explain the discrepancy - PH
The Ord Load of an Io is 120,
Missiles
are rated at 30. Does this mean it can fire 4 missiles total, or that
they
knock 30 points off (what?) To put it another way, how many Ord does a
missile use?
Tim advises: "Every missile fired uses 1 micro-ord. A ship with 120
micro-ord can fire 120 missiles." In practice, battles usually
end well before all missiles are used.
Once the Shields and Armour are gone, the Wing does Blast (hull)
damage.
So a Wing of Ios (Beam power 40, let's ignore missiles for simplicity)
would need to hit a top class ship with a shield power of 3000, 3000/40
= 75 times before it starts on the Armour, let alone the hull.
So, how is the rate of fire
determined?
It's like this:
Beams drain 10 energy from the battery, and missiles drain 100.
Take the Fed Io class fighter. It has a battery of 300 and a generator
of 10. Its missiles have a longer range than its beams.
As it approaches a target, its missiles fire first (because they have a
onger range). It will probably fire 3 missiles, each drains 100 energy
from the battery, as the generator (slowly) recharges the battery.
It is unlikely to recharge the battery back up to a level of 100 again
during the fight, because once it gets into Beam range it will fire
every
time the battery has at least 10 energy units in it.
The damage done by the beams and missiles is not related to the energy
needed to fire them. For an Io, beams are rated at 40 damage, and
missiles
30.
Note that, if a Wing can only
fire
a few shots and then runs out of "oomph", it should probably
be set to Quick Strike. This helps it to retreat and recharge its
batteries.
But the number of shots can be extended by forming a big Wing. Faster
rate
of fire, remember? There's a wing size "trip point" where they
suddenly become very powerful. However, at present this can only be
found
by simulations.
Because missiles don't fire as often, some people say fighters
with
great beams are better than fighters with only great missiles... the
IMT
type 3 fighter, which has no beams and a
big
generator, is designed to show just how powerful
Notes on different races' fighters
Defending against Fighter Wings
Summary: try Micromissile Launchers, Turbolasers, Holo Decoys, Minefields, Nemesis Torpedoes, Other Fighters, Sandcasters [good range, so especially good vs Stormers], Glory Devices. AA guns on bases are very effective if you remember to keep ordnance on the base. Use a mix of techniques, so enemies have a hard time developing countermeasures.
Tim claims that Micromissile Launchers will enrage fighters and draw them in closer so you can pick them off with the rapid-firing but short-range turbolasers. But I have not seen any evidence of this in real battles. Some people say that pure MML's work lots better than a mix of MML's and TL's. Maybe it depends on the race you are fighting.
Micro Missile Launchers... have a longer range and can pelt wings even when they are not near your ships. The problem with Turbolasers, when fighting fighters with a long beam range, is their short range... sometimes the fighters will make a pass and shoot your ships and you won't even fire back.
Swarming races against fighters: don't set an
attack
vector. If you are truly swarming (20+ ships) it is more
effective
to be scattered so fighters take more periodic hits. At times fighters
seem to get confused when they get shot at. Once everything
converges
at the middle then things really get chewed up fast. Don't forget
shield
exotics as all ships in the Swarm benefit from them. Micromissile
launchers
are too expensive to be worth fitting to cheap Swarming ships. You
get more bang-per-buck from Turbolasers.
Some races have very effective anti-fighter hulls, they have lots of
point
defenses and a large attack bonus, and are cheap enough to build in
large
quantities. Examples:
...Stormer Thorn with all Turbo Lasers (10 PD slots and cheap)
...Centaur Zikr (6 PD slots and dirt cheap)
...Fed / Lizard Loki
Wings move essentially randomly. As
Jelmer
Renema pointed out, if the relative positions of fighters and target
ship
is essentially random, the side with better ranged weapons has lots
more
chances to shoot the enemy up than vice versa. (I'll skip his maths
about
areas of circles and ranges and stuff, but basically, doubling
the range of your PD will increase it effectiveness by 4x.)
This Range effect has an intersting consequence: even though the
Turbolaser
fires 3x more often than a micromissile launcher, and kills 3 fighters
per shot, its low range makes it far worse than a micromissile launcher
versus fighters. Jelmer did simulations and came to the conclusion that
1 MML is worth about 4 TL's.
Q. What is the meaning of the blast power of PD's?
A. Each PD hit does the blast power in damage to enemy
fighters.
There's also a chance that a fighter will take a critical hit to its
soft
spot. This means against heavily armoured fighters, fast, weak PD
can be useful.
A. I believe it is compared to the fighter armor to determine if
the shot kills or is absorbed by the fighter armor.
Q. Does a sandcaster cause damage to all fighter of a wing and
is
the armor drain always 1 if it hits?
A. Sandcasters used to hit all fighters in a Wing, but
this
was too powerful, and it was changed. A Sandcaster will now hit a
random
50% of the fighters in a Wing. Some old documentation still wrongly
states
that a sandcaster hits all the Wing. The damage to the fighters it hits
is 1. If it already had no armor, it's blown up. There's a chance
of a critical hit to each fighter, which makes SC very nasty, until you
buy the Sand Shields exotic tech.
Q. At which type do the PD's fire at first when there is wing of
different types?
Answers to this question vary. Some people report: "I've never
noticed t3s getting shot down before 2s and 1s". Others (especially
Robot players) say: "I always see, that the fighterl osses are
distributed
evenly between the different fighter types! So the rare expensive ones
in a mixed wing all get shot up by the end of a battle!" The reason
may be that different fighters have different armor strengths, and the
values vary from race to race(?)
Q. The documentation says a TL can shoot down up to three
fighter
per single shot. What does "can" mean? 1/3 chance for either
for one or two or three fighters? And does it mean that a TL due to its
smaller charge time can under good circumstances shut down nine times
the
fighter number a normal PD can shut down?
A. That means it will fire at 3 fighters per shot. This
does
mean that it can fire 9 times as fast as, say, an MML, which has a 3
tic
charge time. It doesn't necessarily mean it'll shoot down 9 times
as many fighters though; armour, range, damage, accuracy, etc would all
factor into that.
But against heavily armored fighters, it might very well not kill any.
In practice, when the Turbo Laser hits it tends to kill 3
fighters
at a time, but not always.
TLs work very well when used in swarms deployed
in
a scatter pattern. As the fighter wings buzz around in their semi
random fashion, they will encounter TLs form the scattered ships.
This works rather well with the very fast fighters like CoM and Rebel.
Anti-fighter computer
Exotic
Tech
PD shoot twice as often, but they do not use any more power than
normal.
The same power is used to fire two shots at the same time.
Charge time until the next firing of the weapon is the same.
The anti-fighter computer beats (overrides) Sand Shields.
Does it work with 50% PD charge exotic? Also, does it double
fire
of PD versus weapons fire also or just fighters?
No the weapon must be at 100% charge to fire (twice).
There is no extra bonus against weapons fire.
How often does PD ignore fighter armor, with this exotic on?
From
the sims, it seems to render the fighter races moot, unless the attack
ships with about 10x or more MCs worth of fighters.
A standard PD ignores armor 40% of the time and the AFC PD ignores
armor 60% of the time.
Energized Sandcasters Exotic Tech
Do these get through the normal immunity of Robot Rutzies and
Solarian
type 1 fighters?
Yes, it gets the Robot Type 3 fighter, I do not see any immunity for
the
Solorian fighters in the code. . .
Solorian type _2_ fighters are immune to fighter-fighter missiles.
Well that is a whole different can of worms. . . that
has
nothing to do with the firing of ship sand casters on fighters so
energized
sandcasters have nothing at all to do with that fighter immunity.
Of course you'll need some anti-fighter pd
(turbolaser
etc.) but a fact,
being
ignored most of the time but equally important - perhaps even more - is
that
you have to use lots of holodecoys...
In the game I'm currently playing as privateer, the rebel player nearly
wiped out
my homeworld and had already three wings over my homeworld. At the end
I
fended him off, but the key to this victory were lots of small cheap
ships
-
poorly equipped but with holodecoys. I had a wing of type 1 fighters
that
would
have sucked completely otherwise, but with the ships and the holodecoys
the
enemy
fighters did almost no damage to this wing and most of the small ships
survived too.
I had simmed a lot for this fight and in all other cases (with no
holodecoys) I really
merely scratched his fighters before being blasted away, but with
holodecoys...
Jochen
Host 147: (this was after I wrote the
above
section): Fixed: Turbolaser PD system shooting down 9 enemy fighters a
shot when it should only be shooting down a max of 3. So TL's
were
artificially good when I wrote the previous section.
In answer to a question on the
Newsgroup,
"how can I defend against a CoM Wing of 10,000 fighters?" Michael
Henderson advised:
Buy the Energized Sand exotic. Anti-fighter PD exotic is nice
too.
Equip medium sized ships with sandcasters as part of your fleet.
(it's a good idea to put at least 1 SC on every ship) Then laugh
at your foolish CoM enemy who relied upon wings to fight with.
With
those exotics active, his 2 million MCs worth of fighters have as much
chance as a stick of butter in an active volcano.
If you spread your fleet out around the various attack vectors you can
damage his wing faster. If you group your fleet together, it may
take longer to kill his fighters, but there's a better chance of
individual
ships may survive. It's usually best to spread out versus fighter
wings, especially wings with long attack ranges. This way, when
his
wings withdraw to recharge, you're still able to chew through his wings
rapidly with your energized SandCasters.
If you can't catch him, bring the fight to his territory; force him to
defend.
Skies advised:
Here's how I'd go on about destroying it. In defence:
Fortify
a base with loads of AA guns and have lot's of .. make that billions
of..
smaller wings of your own design. (This way the damage doesn't carry
over
to other wings and your fighters get lot more damage done, than in a
single
group)
In attack: Try to sneak in a GA and blast the HW base right from
underneath him. Or bring in a hellish load of anti-fighter ships.
(lot's of PD, no mass. cheap)
David Ouimet suggests: one tactic is 6-8 wings of 10-20 cheap
fighters set to "close to deadly" and 1-2 wings of 500+ fighters that
stand
off.. By the time the small wings are destroyed the sandcaster ships are
usually out of ammo or low and do negligible damage to the large wings.
Miscellaneous Wing stuff (minor tips, obscure things)
Pendragon writes: If you wish for better fighter cover and can afford your ships to move slowly, make your fighters escort the ship and it will refuel automatically, even from ships with no fighter bays like freighters.They'll be vulnerable to mine hits, though.
To ensure your Wings fire at the maximum possible rate, add up the generator power for all your fighters in the wing, then divide by the number of fighters in the wing. Try at all times to keep the average power generated per fighter to 10 or more. This will allow the wing to fire every combat tick. If that's not possible shoot for 5 so they fire every other tick. In this case, 9 is as good as 5.
Q. Does "ord load=500" means 500 missile
shots during all vcr's of one turn?
A. Yes, but that's per fighter. So a wing of 100 could
fire
50,000 missiles before running out of ord.
It's how much Micro-Ord the fighter can carry. Each missle shot
using
one Micro-Ord. Fighters can be resupplied by ships in the same
way
their fuel is resupplied.
Exotic Tech boosts for Attack bonus and Evade bonus do not effect
fighters.
Q. Will take fighters equipped with missiles take ord from
bases?
A. Yes. But fighters use micro-ord, so in most cases won't
be seriously depleting your ord supply.
1 Ord = 1,000 fighter Ord. 1 fuel = 1,000 fighter fuel, you will
hardly notice it.
Jelmer Renema (a fighter expert) has pointed out that it is almost always best to have a mix of fighter types (1,2,3) in a wing, because the three types have different weapon ranges, but pool their batteries / generators. So, as a Wing gets near a target, its longest range weapons start firing continuously - ie you get "free shots". This is countered somewhat because point defenses / other Wings seem to preferentially target type 3 fighters (normally the most expensive) over 2, and 2 over 1, so the best fighters in a Wing disappear first. I'm not convinced this is true for EE fighters - PH.
The Planets4.exe Beta 16 release notes state: - "New: Bases refuel fighter wings New: Ships refuel fighter wings New: A fighter wing's dock target will refuel a wing if the ship flies past the wing during movement." Tim has also mentioned: "Just park any ship next to the Wing. Refueling takes place after all movement is finished."
In response to some questions on this, Sidewinder advised:
Which explains a few things
about
How Fighters Work. Drew Sullivan:
In general I find mixed wings better, and many small wings better than
a few huge wings.
In general I have found that for "fighter cover" cheap and numerous
is the best (lots of 1s). The 2s and 3s (better more expensive
fighters)
shine at destroying ships but the cheap 1s are more cost effective or
distracting
at fighting enemy fighters.
Markus Worm reported, April
2003:
VCR and VCR-Report are not able to show wing sizes greater than 30,000.
I just used a wing of 60,000 fighters, and when selecting it in VCR, I
always got a display of 30,000. Also in the report after battle, there
were no losses displayed (despite the wing has been fired at by
numerous
AAGs, and in fact had losses):
Type 1 Fighter START: 30000 ENDING: 30000
Nonetheless, the wing actually had more 60,000 fighters (have been
displayed
after building it) and still has about 59,000 fighters. This is just
not
displayed in VCR.
Can you tow a Wing? No.
Attacking bases from
space
The ideal base-killing weapon is the Blaster
Cannon,
which gets bonuses; otherwise, even small bases will survive several
turns'
bombardment with e.g. photon torpedoes. (500mm gun and antimatter gun
get
bonuses too, but aren't as good.)
Lizards get a 50X damage bonus
firing
large weapons against bases.
Q. Is the 50X damage vs bases factor for large Lizard weapons
also
in effect for base killer weapons like 500mm Gun, Anti-Matter Gun and
Blaster
Cannon? That way each shot could deliver up to 50000 points of damage!
Whoa!
A. Yes. . . but only 50X the weapon blast. +Normal extra bonus.
- Tim
Jon Nunn writes: I might be a
couple
of hosts off, but it seems that now ships with ground attack off tend
to
stay out of range of an enemy bases Ion Cannon range, while those with
ground attack on will make several passes at the base.
Fighters though make several passes at an enemy base whether or not
ground
attack is on or off resulting in getting shot up without returning fire
if the enemy base has AA Guns.
The Evil Empire and Colonies of Man can move rapidly from the start of the game, and have been known to strike at neighbouring homeworlds as early as turn 10 in order to deal a knockout blow. Even if they don't destroy your main base, they hope to do enough damage to knock you back - maybe kill half your population, to cripple your economy, or destroy a key high tech structure.
By turn 10 or earlier, you ought to have 1 - 2 ships, even just Nocturnes or similar, guarding your homeworld with the following equipment:
In the event of a battle, your home base's fighters will attack the enemy. Your AA guns and Ion Cannon on the base will also attack him. These simple cheap defenses should make enemy attacks so costly that anyone planning a quick strike in the early game will lose most or all of their force, whilst doing little damage.
Why Bases can only fight twice in a turn
Drew Sullivan asked on the
Newsgroup:
When does combat occur?
There are some conflicting opinions in the Mailing List as to when
Combat
occurs. Some say on tick 50, then every 20 ticks thereafter (tick 50,
70,
90, 110, 130, 150, 170, 190).
What about at tick 200?
Others say you have to spend 20 ticks within 5 LY combat range.
What is the real answer?
Tim replied (August 2002):
At movement phase 50 all ships and wings within 5LY of one another and
enemies will fight.
After that it is a big mess. . .
After that first fight at
phase
50 any ship at all that has not been in combat in the last 49 phase
ticks
can START a fight and draw in all ship wings and pods within 5LY into a
fight.
So you can have a fight on phase
50
and then have a fast moving new ship move in at phase 51 and have it
start
a second fight with all the same ships that were in the phase 50 fight.
. .
After a base has been in a fight
it
will NOT fight again until phase 200. Phase 200 is very special: it is
the last call to fight and all bases left standing must take part in
that
fight. . .
Back during the dark times. . .
we
would sometimes have oh say 30 combat VCR's over the same planet as
ships
from hither and yon staggered in to attack a base. So it was changed to
just have bases be in one first fight and then the end battle at phase
200 and the power of ship weapons verses bases was increased.
If you want to attack a base with
a
ship it is best to just park the ship over it, that is plan on ending
movement
over the base and staying there a while.
Afterword by PH - this all seems very sensible and fair, but I have heard occasional reports of people managing to use this feature where "bases can only take part in 2 battles in a turn" to initiate a minor combat before an enemy's main fleet arrives, and thus have time to get reinforcement ships there by tick 200 and save the base.. It shows that even the best rule can be abused, or used skilfully (depending on your viewpoint).
Three or more ships over an enemy base stops them from launching any pods (blockade). Having one friendly ship over the planet after movement breaks the blockade
There's a bit more on Blockade on the Evil Empire page, blockade section. Prisoner-taking races like the EE use Blockade to stop enemy colonists escaping, while they bring up some forces to Ground Assault the base.
Tim: The blockade rule has been added to REWARD any empire with the power and the will to place its fleet over the planet of an enemy. It is a reward for being bold and taking enemy planets. I have seen too many cowards pod launch everything off of a planet just so my fleet would not be able to claim its prize. If you want to scorch the planets before me do so BEFORE my fleet parks itself in your sky. I favor things that make the game more agressive and bloody, blockades serve that goal. If you want to break a blockade all that you have to do is get one ship in orbit over the planet. You can send in a bunch of cheap high evasive ships set to flee. If just one gets away it will act as a screening ship for your pods the next turn and you can launch all the pods you want. Those blockade breaking ships are your heroic ones that rely on some luck to be successful. They are the ones that they will sing the songs about. Fortune favors the bold.
There are only two types of ground assault: