Playing Lizards in VGAP4
September 2000. | Suggestions
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(This page is built up from comments on the mailing list,
by: David Ouimet; Jon Nunn; Chris Olin; Greg Bahr; Tim Wisseman; Marco
Schon; Claudius Muller; and Martin Lorenz. My thanks to them for their
insights.)
Overview
- Lizards are the fourth "official" racepack to be released
by Tim (September 2000). They have big, unsubtle ships and a couple of
cloakers. They have special rules covering their ground combat, making
them especially effective. Their cloaker can carry 3,000 assault troops
and that's all they need to terrorise the galaxy.
- Any resemblance to Star Trek's Gorn
is purely coincidental.
- As in VGAP3, they can Hiss (terrorise) planets to increase tax income
to exceptional levels without incurring riots, so they're awash with cash.
- Unlike VGAP3, their cloakers can be effectively decloaked by Lokis.
- With a farming range of 48 to 95, they will compete with Crystals for
farmable worlds. Possibly a natural ally for Lizards is the Stormers; they
can't use each others' best farming worlds. (No conflict.) Because they're
able to use the key 50 degree temperature to farm, most planets are suitable.
(Because most tend towards 50 degrees as they heat up / cool down during
the game. They eventually stabilise at a temperature determined mainly
by their star type, and it's usually near 50 degrees).
- Training: Middle range training rates along with a 110% growth rate
will allow them to field an adequate number of troops but not exceptional.
Very few High Guard relative to the Stormers, but still more than the Federation.
- The low Spy (Psi?) rating makes it more
difficult for them to aquire other races ship plans. The low PSI rating
slows down gathering of goodies.
- Able to use most planetary structures.. Notable exceptions are: No
Anti-Aircraft batteries, Laser Cannons, Ion Cannons or Under Cities. Can
Terraform and build Base Shields and Resorts. No special structures yet.
Using special racial abilities
Using special ship devices
The Particle Fountain Mines planets from orbit. It also adds
to Hyperdimensional Stress.
The Paticle Fountion also increases Planet Stress (but not as much as
Mining Laser) Do NOT use on your own homeworld! On other worlds, be ready
to ship out the natives and colonists before the world dies or else use
a dampener.
DO use a Particle Fountain along with your Scaler Wave Amp on your enemy's
homeworld. In fact, do it early and often.
Oliver Voigt: with a first look at the Lizards I noticed
that the only ship device changing the climate is a Global Icer on the
Eros. With a maximum farm climate of 95 it's pretty useless. What they
need is a Global Warmer instead. Perhaps the Eros' ship device could be
changed if the data is not just extracted from the Fed Shippack, or the
Bohemian instead of the Eros could be included the Lizard shippack. IMHO
without a Warmer the Lizard will be pretty hard to play...
Has anyone tested the Hisser-unit, how it works? In v3 you simply raised
the relating planet's tax by approx. 5% per hissing ship. Now you have
a universal tax system setting the taxes for all your bases, or are the
Lizards stick to the complex tax system if they want to benefit from hissing?
- I think it affects the happiness on a single planet, which affects
the amount of money any given tax rate will yield.
(Greg Bahr:) They have a sort of Super Weapon.
The Scaler Wave Amp, which increases the base frequency of the planet,
which will in the end cause it to explode. No Base Shield will stop it!
Muhahahaha
(David Ouimet): It takes a long time to be effective
over a planet (good luck agaisnt anyone but a crushed enemy) and is useless
in combat
(Martin Lorenz:) The Scalar Wave Amp is IMO a
very potent weapon. The base frequency it changes is the more or less constant
difference between the stress level of the current and the next turn. So
if your enemy once gets over your planet with the device on and changes
it to a positive value, you have to have a Scalar Wave Dampener at hand
or your planet will accumulate more an more stress until the great goodbye.
I wonder if several of these devices in the same turn act together.
Chris Olin:
I would guess that it works similarly to other
terraform devices, in that the effect lingers; but, the planet has a tendency
to move back to a "natural" condition.
If you look at the Hyperdemensional stress math,
- S = Stress in Hoaglands
- I = Inertia
- B = Base Frequency in HoaglandHertz
- DS = Delta Stress (Change in stress)
- H = SquareRoot( I )
- DS = B - SquareRoot( I )
- S = S + DS
That planet goes Boom when the stress level hits
1000. The Wave amp inceases the Base Frequency; so depending on the max
value for that; a planet with very little starting stress could take a
very long time to blow.
Recommended colonisation strategy
Lizards should take advantage of their 190 mining by strip mining. Don't
worry about excess mines causing natives to be upset; build a cheap version
of your tech 2 ship and start hissing.
The Particle Fountain is also effective at increasing the temperature
of a planet. The Eros is intended to cool it back down to optimum farming
level.
Strategy suggestions
Personnel ground combat stats, and racial Dark Powers don't look too
good until you realise they don't use the normal Ground Combat rules for
personnel.
Mechanised ground forces are pretty good but opinions are divided on
just how good:
"these look better [than the personnel]" said one early analyst.."Some
nice attack factors will allow the Lizards to inflict heavy casulties on
the enemy, but they should expect to take losses against a prepaired enemy.
Not sure but, with the staggered system used for Ground Combat, the Mobile
Bunker seems all but useless as it does not fight jointly with other units."
"[All] their assault vehicles are pretty good" countered
Chris Olin. "I wondered about them not seeming to have much in the
way of Defensive stats, though their Offensive ones are well over the top."
Chris pointed to the type 3, the "Mobile Bunker":
- Attack Air 10
- Attack Ground Troops 50
- Attack Cities 30
- Attack Ground Units 50
- Defense From Air Attack 200
- Defense From Ground Troops 230
- Defense From Ground Units 240
"It seems like this is meant to soak up the damage and thus protect
other units; kinda like the Gunga battle bubble"
Claudius Muller asked:
"I'm wondering why the Lizards seem so weak. If you compare their
combat stats to the Stormers' the question arises where all their physical
strength ("...throwing boulders of rock around like little plastic
balls...") went to. Or is it just their fighting techniques that are
so poor? This P4-Version of them looks pretty far from the 30:1 (any race)
or 2:1 (Stormers) ratio they could rely on in P3. What makes up for it?"
Tim's reply:
"With the release of the next host the Lizards will have immunity
to enemy ground troop / crew / colonist weapons. Their puny weapons can
not get through the thick Lizard skin.
"In a ground war, Lizards can only be killed by assault craft,
fighters and lasercannon.
"Anyone afraid yet?"
Q. What do enemy highguard rangers to them? I.e. are Captain
Kirk or Darth Vader doomed if they stumble over a Gorn child???
A. "That happened to the Outpost at Cestus III? Feds all
dead, Gorn 0 dead. (No Gorn bodies found).
"Captain Kirk had problems with 1, what would he do against 2,
or 1000!
"High guard do not fight in ground wars, they give their troops
/ crew / colonists a massive advantage from their leadership, but if things
get really bad they run away in their personal shuttle. High guard do not
die in ground wars, they always escape.
"So yes, if a high guard rangers sees a Lizard child they run
away like a little girrrlsss. - Tim"
Immediately, a question was raised: what happens if you drop 1 Lizard
on an enemy planet? Does it just invulnerably scythe through millions of
enemies? Answer: as with any ground combat, there's a limit to how many
enemies it can kill in one turn. Besides, if it's vastly outnumbered, it
will surrender at the end of the turn if the enemy are set to KillKillKill.
This was thought very neat by the Beta Tester community, but an intense
debate decided it was Too Good. And what about crew-transfers to enemy
ships from the Lizard cloakers? A single Lizard could capture any ship(Nova,
Cube or whatever) despite the fact that powerful hand weapons are (presumably)
available to crew on a ship. So Tim changed the ground-combat thus:
- Lizards have 100% normal ship boarding party combat. They only have
their special combat powers when there is a plentiful supply of large boulders
to throw at the enemy.
- I will drop the immunity idea and replace it with:
- Lizards get a massive combat bonus when fighting enemy colonists, troops
and crew in ground combat. They kill 30 times normal when fighting enemy
colonists, troops and crew. They have no special advantages when fighting
assault craft or fighters.
- They do not have any special advantages when fighting enemies during
ship boarding actions.
Note: if two Lizard players are involved in a ground combat,
no special rules apply. It is resolved like any two normal races ground-assaulting
each other.
Strategies against particular races:
If you run into Stormers, just upgrade your ships and send them
their way; it won't be long until the Stomers cry "uncle". If
they refuse then mine their home world from orbit with the Saurian Particle
Foution, getting minerals while ruining the Stormers economy by global
warming, and if you keep it up evenually the planet will explode.
Against Borg, drop your Lizard troops with Kill 3X orders so
the Borg won't have time to assisulate them.
In very early game, the Feds are no match for you, but once they
can build Lokis watch out! The best ship you have for taking out Lokis
is another Loki; your other ships with attack bonuses to offset the Loki's
70% evasive bonus are very vulerable to Ion Cannons which everybody has
by then.
Combat against Feds: Mix-in both your unique ship designs along with
stolen Fed plans. His response is a win-win-win for you.
- He can just have just anti-armor weapons (Ion Cannons), which are very
ineffective aginst the stolen fed design ships.
- He can just have just anti-shield weapons (Sand Casters), which are
very ineffective against your iron clads.
- He can mix weapons types, which can make them easier for your point
defense systems to shoot down.
Techs: Don't bother with Hyperdrives or Superweapons. You can't
use either one.
- Shields is a low priority. (The best one you can use is 900
and that's on stolen Fed designs.)
- Weapons tech (both small & large) is a high priority. Large
is a higher priority than small.
- Engine tech is a very high priority with you having low hull
tech ships capiable of going 190.
- Hull tech is a medium priority. There's really no point advancing
past Hull Tech 8 until you can build Turbo Weapons Arrays for your T-Rexs.
Lizard fighters:
Types 1 & 2 are Iron Clads with 40 Armor! Forget about Sandcasters.
They are also very expensive, 300 & 350 MC a piece.
Type 1 appears designed for long range strikes on planets with the 120
ly range. The weapons have a very short range and are limited in numbers,
but they are accurate and these fighters are 50% evasive. Type 2 has more
weapons, longer ranges, but have zero evasive bonus like type 1. (Easy
to shoot down by conventional PD & fighters) Type 3 is much more affordable
(80 MC each) however the weapons are inaccurate in space, and not evasive.
Perhaps it's for shooting down Enemy Lizards on your planet.
Miscellaneous notes
Tax rates [Jon Nunn]: Maybe Lizards should NOT use complex taxes,
it's their worst base rate and their hissers can only boost happiness to
100.
Their best tax rate could be Conservative : (.4 + .15 Non-PC
+ up to .2 leadership.)
Otherwise it's Liberal (.7, .5 + Public Relations .2)
Enslavement is .65. No modifers.
Ultra Conservative is up to .7. (.3 + .2 Non-PC + up to .2 leadership)
This should produce .05 less than Conservative.
Complex is only .45 (.55 - .10 Non-PC penalty). However extra happiness
gets converted to money.
What hissing IS good for is for calming down the natives upset about
stripped-mined planets. (Large number of factores & mines)
"A low PC rating may prove a hinderance with natives but the 90
PR is not much lower than normal." - David Ouimet
Jon Nunn: More imporantly, the non-PC gives them tax bonuses running
the conservative (and ulta-conservative) economy and tax penalty running
complex. The 90 Public Relations is still high enough to get a bonus running
Liberal economy.
A high Leadership should help along with a good Lawfulness.
Yes, the Leadership also gives tax bonuses running conservative (and
ultra-conservative.)
The good lawfulness prevents them from having happiness problems on
liberal, and tax & happiness problems on enslavement.
Ships
Lizards get many decent early warships.
The only ship with cloak is the Lizard Class Cruiser, which has a guest
capacity of 3,000 but no pod bays; it also has a Barbitic mine dropper.
Its warp signature is 40, so it's only just invisible when the Cloaking
Device is switched on (-50% bonus)... so it may be a bad idea to rush around
at top speed (110) when you really want to sneak around. High speeds increase
the chances of being spotted.
The Saurian Class Cruiser has 2 pod bays a Hisser, and a Particle
Fountain; but, no cloak like in VGAP3. (Theoretically
the Saurian can also cloak, but with a Warp Signature of 90 it's fairly
pointless.)
Only the Lizard Class Cruiser and the tech 8
Loki have mine sweeping arrays.
The Lizard ships seem to be very tough and relatively fast. (Saurian
and the two Top Ships, Madonnzilla and T-Rex can travel at 190 LY / turn)
Althought the top ships don't have any attack bonus, thank goodness!,
the medium ones generally have - so they're even more dangerous than you
might have thought.
Question: Do they get the old 150% damage absorption bonus like
they did in VGA Planets 3?
Answer: All of their native designs have damage modifiers of
about 50. So in theory, their ships can take about 200% damage; but, it
is a ship property not transfereable to alien designs.
The Lizards have re-enforced an impression I have gotten from the other
race packs. With the noteable exception of the Cyborgs, the v4 races seem
much more generalized. Race based advangives are nearly gone; largely replaced
by ship gizmos. This is an unsettling trend.... - Chris Olin
(Indeed, so unsettling that a debate arose amongst the Beta Testers
and Tim decided to make more of the special powers in the game race-specific
rather than hull-specific. Because otherwise, there was too much danger
of imbalance from obtaining special devices through Spying Ship Plans.)
David Ouimet's / Jon Nunn's Lizard Ship
notes:
Common ships such as freighters are ignored. Note
that the damage vulnerability is negligable and over all their ships are
BASE LINE NO STRONGER than any other race as the key factors of BLAST and
KILL do not seem to be modified in any way. All Lizard ships seem to have
resonable scanner ranges and high repair making them sturdy and effective
attack/patrol units. Most ships look to be fairly cheap, so the Lizards
may prove to be an effectve Swarm Race like the Borg.
- Serpent Class Escort: As well as being
an attractive looking ship it looks to be very effective. With a limited
attack bonus and good weapon complement it should be effective in early
fights. The high armor rating will allow them to make early pushes while
other races are still trying to raise their shield tech. Tack on an early
tractor beam and 1000 repair units and this is a very sturdy ship. Tack
on the Psi Hisser
and you have a good ship to build, and cheap. Build initally
with the cheapest weapons for anti Borg Probe duty. If heavier stuff comes
along, upgrade later. Watch out for enemy Ion Cannons. Limited ordance.
- Reptile Class Destroyer: Again a good
combat ship. With double the Serpent's Small Weapons and Point Defense
system its a good upgrade to your combat fleet. Again it has a Psi
Hisser and is fairly cheap. Do note its 3000
ordnance capacity, and decent tractor beam. The
Warp Drag of 30 does not mean its semi-cloaked.. it does mean it will burn
less fuel than most other ships on long voyages.. The warp sig is 60, still
fairly noticable.
- Eros: This ship will prove of limited
use, as very few planets will be too hot for the Lizards, a ship with a
Beo would have been more appropriate.
- Saurian Class Cruiser: With a warp drag
signature of 90, the cloaking device
seems pointless. Its weapon complement is not impressive so as a warship
the ship is not a real upgrade from the Reptile. However this ship does
have a Particle Fountain
which will prove very useful in both mining and raising a planet's temperature.
Again the Psi Hisser
will prove a bonus, even helping them with natives.
- Lizard Class Cruiser: Not a good warship,
but this ship does perform well in a support role. With a guest Capacity
of 3000 colonists beware. Tack on a mine layer
and mine sweeper and
it is a very good support ship but a little ord shy. It also mounts an
effective cloaking device.
- Vendetta Class Frigate: One of the few
well shielded Lizard ships, it will still prove of limited use as most
other Lizard ships will out perform it.
- Loki Class Destroyer: The Tachyon
Emitter is a nice addition allowing them to
keep cloaking races from sneaking up on the Lizards. Again fairly well
shielded and armed and backed up with a good attack bonus and adequate
defensive systems. It is ideal against ships with Soft Spots (because
its abundance of Small Weapons give you many, many chances of hitting the
opponent's critical Achille's Heel assuming you have worn down their
shields and armour). It has a 70% evasive bonus which makes it very hard
to hit unless the opponent has a big attack bonus so despite having no
Large Weapons, it's a surprisingly effective fighting ship. Not much use
against huge ships with no soft spot, though. Remember to
keep Lokis away from your Lizard Class Cruisers. (You don't want to light
up your OWN cloakers.)
- Madonnzila Class Carrier: A good mix between
a medium carrier and a battleship. Heavly armored and fairly well armed
backed up by a 1000 fighters may prove effective. Especially when it can
replace combat losses on the fly with the fighter factories. - Only
build if you can afford 1000 fighters, but most should be the relatively
cheap Type 3. Can stand its own against light stuff, but in real combat,
put it in the second wave, and arm with long range stuff (Photon Torpedos
& Tachyon Beams)
- T-Rex Class Battleship: The Scalar
Wave Damper is an interesting addition, but
perhaps more fun is the Gravity Well Generator
(so hyp ships can't get away).. It
seems the Lizards have been working in some intersting technological fields.
With 15 very heavy large weapon mounts and a hefty 5500 points of armor
its a very durable ship with a limited punch. Perhaps more of a threat
is the 8000 hissing lizards backed up by 4 pod bays and a boarding laser..
This ship is very fast and fairly cheap for its size but not as well armed
or protected as I had expected. - But it seems designed for 15
Turbo Laser Arrays! Try that. Also bear in mind it only takes 30% normal
damage to the hull and has no soft spot! Also has a Boarding
laser. Close to point blank for optimum destruction of enemy ships.
- Jon Nunn
Anti-Lizard tactics
- Use weapons which take out heaps of armour; forget about shields, they
don't have any to speak of. Apart from the Vendetta and Loki, which are
small Fed designs they copied (shield: 900; armour: 80 / 20 respectively),
their best shield is the 400-pointer on the T-Rex, and if you're worried
about 400 points of shield on a ship with 5500 armour you're really in
trouble. Average armour on the actual fighting ships appears to be over
1,000 points.
- "For all you lizards out there, I have 2 words for you: Ion
Cannon " - Christian Jadot. - I checked and he's right. To
quote the Help Files: "The ion cannon ...does very little damage
to the hull of the target, but has the nasty side effect of sending a electrical
overload to the ship`s control systems, burning out control systems....
Ships which lose their control systems are unable to maneuver or fire back...
The ion cannon is able to arc through 3000 units of armour and do
damage to internal systems. It is very hard to shoot down an ion cannon
bolt with point defense. The ion cannon`s bolts do no damage to armor .The
ion bolts can not get past shields and drains a mere 4 shield power units
with every hit." But: ion cannons will be little use against
the top Lizard ships which have over 3,000 units of armour!
- Forget about Sandcasters: 1 : Lizard fighters are too heavily armored.
2 : Lizard ships have so little shields on them anyway.
- "Even better yet, a stormer with an Ion Cannon. 200 shield arc
+ the 3000 armor arc. It'll be intresting to see these 2 races fight it
out. Since both of them will have barely any defence." - Christian
Jadot
- Lizards will need loads of Duranium for their armour - can you deny
them this resource? Destroying a Base will eliminate the ore and metal
it mined too. Target ore pods?
- I suspect their massively armoured ships will need a lot of fuel, too
- try to strip all planets of these
- Protect planets with assault craft (ground units) and fighters, not
personnel
- Lay minefields to stop their cloakers getting near you
- Use Loki Class Destroyers (available from the Feds as well as Lizards)
to decloak them
- Don't bother trying to capture their ships by transferring crew over!
- Apart from the Loki and Vendetta, their ships don't seem to have any
Soft Spots, so Small Weapons are less useful against them than against
most races.
- This is a bit complex, slow and probably won't work, but... I suspect
their planets will have high HD Stress from all their specialist mining:
so, a Scalar Wave Amp will be more effective at planet-busting Lizard worlds.
- Defending against Ground Assault: One lasercannon can kill up to 10
troops, 20 crew and 30 colonists a turn, whether they're Lizards or not.